Hip Hop + Religion

fantasma P23

Du har rätt det är klart. Men du måste fatta att NGE/NOI/5% uttrycker sig genom islamiska idologier men riktiga muslimer erkänner inte dom som muslimer.

Palla inte läsa hela skitet så jag svarar bara de som skrev till mig :P *lat*

SunTzu: Hehe, då byter vi bara ut "/" mot "eller" så förstår du mig rätt...;)

Womack: Vi säger så här: Läs http://www.ibiblio.org/nge/What.html så ser du vad Rza menar med Allah..:)

T-bone är kristen, dynggöt

solozio: Du flippar med mig?! Räkna upp dina 6 pelare...

Shahada, Salat, Zakat, Fastan under Ramadan (Siyam) & Hajj...vad är den sjätte pelaren?

Solozio, sry såg inte att du syftade på pelarna av Iman och inte pelarna av Islam...my mistake =)
Men det där med att man blir en icke-muslim om man inte ber är varken upp till dig eller mig att tro/påstå, vi får inte döma andra när det gäller bönen, det är en massa olika åsikter bland de lärda. E man lat och ber då och då så e man ändå muslim, det är bara när man fattar bevisen och ÄNDÅ struntar i dom, som gör att man blir en icke-muslim. =)

Jag ställde några frågor ang. detta till en snubbe som nu är med i NGE (tror det var NOI innan), så håll till godo:

These are some most notable differences:

*NOI practices just about all of the main aspects of ISLAMIC orthodoxy (ex: 5 PILLARS of FAITH), while the NGE, with the x-ception of a few (dare I say "more learned" individuals, do not.

*NOI is based solely on its infrastructure, much in the SHI'YAH style that the faction originally took instruction from......

A QHALIPH (leader/ruler), seconded by SHAYKHS (national representatives), IMAMS (MINISTERS) and SHARIYFS (CAPTAINS and LIEUTENANTS).

This structure works on the local level, all the way up to the national (and even international).

The NGE has no such structure; it is taught that each GOD and EARTH should be SOUL CONTROLLER of his/her own universe, and that this control will permeate into all aspects of live.

It's my opinion that this notion fails just as much as it succeeds.

*Many see the x-sistence of the NGE as just as much as a deviation from NOI, as many feel that the NOI is a deviation from ISLAM proper.

Unfortunately this is just as much true as it is false.

For x-ample, whilst the NOI seeks to make the MUSLIMS aware of ISLAMIC history, as it plays a part in each members' spiritual growth, in the NGE it is all but abandoned.

The NOI bases its doctrine prominently on scripture (QUR'AN and BIBLE), while the NGE places little emphasis on this.

*Dress code of the NOI is totally different from that of the NGE........

NOI members--both women and men alike are required by ISLAMIC law to uphold a "righteous attire" (which, in comparison to other ISLAMIC schools of thought, is far more reasonable).

There is little to no attire for the NGE, although respectable garmentation is emphasized for the EARTHS.

*Membership for the NOI is completely x-clusive; this cuts down on people choosing to join merely out of a casual or passing interest, thereby holding any/all members accountable for their presence withing the NATION.

Because there is little to no structure for the NGE, there is also little to no x-clusivity for the org.........Thus, giving way for "imposters" to infiltrate the group.

Both the cause and effect for this is structural as well as spiritual.

Och här svarade en annan snubbe på några fler frågor (väntar iofs på bättre svar på dessa från Shah, eftersom han som svarade här inte går speciellt djupt...)

* What are the origins of the lessons of the Supreme Wisdom?
Fard Muhammad wrote them, and passed them on to Elijah, but where did Fard get them in the first place? I've heard it's based on the Qu'ran, is this correct?

The supreme wisdom is ANCHIENT WISDOM that was collected by FARD from his studies of the history of the planet earth and YES the quran is an element of the lessons.

* Is the Supreme Wisdom, Supreme Alphabet, Supreme Mathematics and the 12 Jewelz of Islam all separate concepts, or is SA/SB/12J included in the SW?
In either case: Are any/all of these things studied both by NOI and NGE?

the noi have the the superem wisdom.....the nge have that, and mathematics alphabets ....(12 jewels are x-tra)

* You said NOI is based on the Qu'ran and Bible (this is probably answered in the above question), but then what role does the SW play? (this is obvious if the SW has its roots in the Qu'ran).

the supreme wisdom is a book in itself. And has teachings which are NOT in bible or QURAN.

* If NGE doesn't require study of the Qu'ran or Bible, then what is the scriptual basis for the NGE?

the scriptual basis is the SW however they are to be memorized word for word....

* NOI are separatists, and achieving their goal is at least a little realistic since they're organized. But what about NGE? Are they striving for a separate Black nation? I find this very unlikely because of the lack of organization.

the duty of the nge is to teach all human families of the planet earth...knowledge of ones self....no/ not to seperate...

* I've heard about a white man studying under NGE (actually under the "master" himself; in this case, who's the master?)
What makes him different from black 5%ers?

they have to study at least 35-50 years to become a MUSLIM SON......this on a small level shows and proves how dedicated he is with the teachings.

my answers are brief but broken down simply.

PEACE SUN TZU:

Quote:
* What are the origins of the lessons of the Supreme Wisdom?
Fard Muhammad wrote them, and passed them on to Elijah, but where did Fard get them in the first place? I've heard it's based on the Qu'ran, is this correct?

Actually, the LESSONS are a question and answer session between FARAD and ELIJAH, based on the formers instruction of the latter.

And yes, the LESSONS have their basis in the QUR'AN, and ISLAMIC/AFRO-ASIAN teachings.

Quote:
* Is the Supreme Wisdom, Supreme Alphabet, Supreme Mathematics and the 12 Jewelz of Islam all separate concepts, or is SA/SB/12J included in the SW?
In either case: Are any/all of these things studied both by NOI and NGE?

When we speak of 120, it is the combination of all the articles that you mentioned.

However, the SUPREME WISDOM in accordance to NOI teachings correspond to the the specific questions and answers between FARAD and ELIJAH.

The ALPHABET is x-clusive to the NGE, and for the most part so is the MATH (I say "for the most part, because the MATH is not utilized in the same aspect in the NOI as is in the NGE).

The 12 JEWELS were brought with MASTER FARAD MUHAMMAD.

Quote:
* You said NOI is based on the Qu'ran and Bible (this is probably answered in the above question), but then what role does the SW play? (this is obvious if the SW has its roots in the Qu'ran).


Uhhmm, you pretty much indeed answered your own question here.

However, I will say that the SW acts as a guide for those who are totally unknowledgeable of ISLAM, both from a historical and spiritual perspective, to (re)adjust their mentalities to be able to receive this "new" knowledge and culture.

That's why they are called the "LESSONS".

Quote:
* If NGE doesn't require study of the Qu'ran or Bible, then what is the scriptual basis for the NGE?

Unfortunatley, as the GOD DECIPHA stated, 120 is the scriptural basis.

However, this serves to work against many in the NGE, since they do not know nor understand the origins of this.

This works especially against them, when they seek to make "MUSA", "YA'QUB", etc, real historical people, yet have no understanding regarding the documents in which that (supposed) historical basis originates, which is in the BIBLE and QUR'AN.

Even the LESSONS seek to acclimate the STUDENT to the BIBLE and QUR'AN, yet many of the NGE continue to miss the point.

Quote:
* NOI are separatists, and achieving their goal is at least a little realistic since they're organized. But what about NGE? Are they striving for a separate Black nation? I find this very unlikely because of the lack of organization.

Ironically, so do I.........

Quote:
* I've heard about a white man studying under NGE (actually under the "master" himself; in this case, who's the master?)
What makes him different from black 5%ers?

You are indeed referring to AZRAEL......... I do not know much about him, and I dare say that this lack of knowledge stems from lack of interest.

Personally, I think that people make more of a big deal about him, than needs to be.

But DECIPHA was correct in stating that he is/was a MUSLIM SON.

SALAAM HASHASH:

Quote:
I have also a question for the knowledgable about the differences between NOI and NOGE, in regard to the origine of Farad.

From what I have heard his origin under dispute, NGE literature lead me toward Shams and NOI toward Makkah. Then there is the FBI who says he is from Portland, and his supposed white wife who claims he is from New Zealand of a Brittish father and a Polynesian mother. Turkish ancestry also comes by.

Which is it, according to whom and are there any alternatives to add to the mentioned options ?

Because ALL of these wild allegations are far-fetched and have not been proven in all the 70+ years since FARAD first came here, I see no reason whatsoever to entertain them.

The only aspect that intrigues me regarding FARAD, is whether or not he actually became a member of the MOORISH SCIENCE TEMPLES upon first coming to AMERIKKKA, prior to continuing with his mission.

Otherwise, I see no reason not to take the man as his word, that he was indeed from ARABIA, of a SAUDI father and TURKISH mother.

Quote:
I believe his origin may be very essential in determining how to interpret his words, and an interesting compare to Elijah's interpertations.

Can you x-plain how such info would factor into discerning his teachings??

As I had stated, the only intriguing aspect to FARAD's mission would be that he may have become a member of the MST, which might bear issue, since FARAD's teachings mirror the MST's almost identically.

However, that could merely prove to be "coincidence", since NOBLE DREW ALI, the found of the MST, had ventured to KEMET and MORROCO, 2 places FARAD had claimed to visit prior to coming to the WEST, before DREW founded the MST.

Their similarity in doctrine could merely be the result of having encountered the same teachings at different times.

Or not........

Quote:
Is it true that untill Clarence came along nobody had knowledge of self for as far as the understanding "Allah = Asiatic Blackman" (stagfurallah) is concerned, and therefor nobody claimed such identity but saw it only within Farad?

LMAO (especially @ "STAGFURALLAH" ), no. For one thing, FARAD, based on my understanding of the teachings of the NOI (which, btw, matches that of others), FARAD was never the equivolent to ALLAH in the aspect to which you have referred, both here and in the FARRAKHAN thread.

Especially since he himself (nor ELIJAH) taught such a thing, based on the LESSONS:

16. Who is the 5% in the Poor Part of the Earth?

ANS. They are the poor, righteous Teachers, who do not believe in the teachings of the 10%, and are all-wise; and know who the Living God is; and Teach
that the Living God is the Son of man, the supreme being, the (black man) of Asia; and Teach Freedom, Justice and Equality to all the human family of the planet Earth.
Otherwise known as: Civilized People.
Also are: Muslim and Muslim Sons.


1. The original man is the Asiatic Black man; the Maker; the Owner; the Cream of the planet Earth - Father of Civilization, God of the Universe.


Nothing in this makes the claim that these attributes are x-clusive to FARAD in any aspect.

Quote:
Add on Sahby, I believe it is exactly these that have specific relevance to this topic.


Well, actually they are not, since, much like the FARRAKHAN topic, these issues are propelled by people who do not have sufficient knowledge on NOI or NGE (including one another).

Such as the notion in which the NGE sites that the NOI puts "WISDOM BEFORE KNOWLEDGE" or WOMAN BEFORE MAN.

I have yet to meet a NGE member that can offer empirical proof of this, and therefore, just like the notion that FARAD is from NEW ZEALAND, it holds little relevance.

Quote:
Would such be a difference between NOI of yesterday and NGE, also is todays perspective any different?

This question seems to imply that the teachings of both orgs are not static and time-tested.

I would argue this point, but in true esoteric spirit, I would say that one's culture that does not grow and/or x-pand based on knowledge is a stagnant one.

UPP!

= osant...

Visionaries , kristna

hm..intressant tråd. får passa på att ge suntzu en vänskaplig dunk i ryggen

ett par andra exempel på artister som är religösa

DV alias Krist (riktigt jävla grym, underskattad dock)
någon nämnde Oldominion men de är värda att nämnas igen
Cee-Lo (osäker vilken religion han tillhör, tror han är kristen)
David Banner (kristen)

Visualiza
är inte Mase fortfarande präst? hörde att han gjort come back som artist (welcome back är för övrigt en bra låt)

droopy: Finns det nån länk om det? Skulle vilja läsa om deras övergående till tradtionell islam =)

Den där listan är inte helt korrekt, Nas till exempel har väl förnekat att han är 5%? I stora drag stämmer den dock.

Hamdo P15

Elijah Wood? :)

Jag tror du menar Elijah Muhammad ;)

I vilket fall som helst är inlägget löjligt subjektivt. Jag förstår att du som ortodox muslim har svårt för såna här "alternativa" idéer, och du använder ordet "sekt" som något självklart negativt. Varför är ortodox Islam mer rätt än NGE/NOI?

NGE har inte gått närmare vanlig Islam, men NOI har det.

DMX e ju iaf riktigt jävla troende, han har ju alltid me en bön som interlude på sina plattor och hela utsidan på And then there was X e en bibelvers

meandyoursister: Det kan du väl inte fråga han/oss/någon annan än Mos Def himself...eller? =)

^^^ Håller med ifalas_1. Det jag menar är mest att hur ska vi kunna veta varför Mos Def fortfarande gör musik när han mkt väl vet om att det är haram, varför nån gör si och varför nån annan gör så...Alla gör sina gärningar/synder och var och en kommer stå till svars för dess synder när den dött.

Run är pastor.

Sen finns det ju kristna rappare i Sverige också.
Servants (Seron & Wordical), till exempel.

Jedi Mind Tricks for real ! :D

Mase var ju en pastor innan, eller jag vet inte om det är sant eller inte, men enligt rykten så var han det...

Vet inte vilka som nämnts, men RZA, RAKIM är muslimer. Alicia Keys kristen?

Killah Priest är ju kristen och rätt så mycket religiös. Och är inte Beastie Boys typ judar?

"Vet inte vilka som nämnts, men RZA, RAKIM är muslimer." <--Nej devv : Varken Rza ELLER Rakim är muslimer! Dom e NGE/5%, och de sekterna har inget med Islam att göra what so ever...har du inte läst genom tråden eller?

Angående diskussionen om Wahhabi, här finns svar på vad det är (engelska):

thewahhabimyth.com

ThePharaoh P16

Killah Priest är INTE kristen. Han tillhör INGEN religion eller organisation.

okej, min information kanske är lite outdated. men han har iallafall varit religiös.

cyne = kristen?

Hamdo: Skrev jag nånstans/står det nånstans på den sidan att Osama är "wahhabi"?? Ta och läs artiklarna och inte bara rubrikerna, det står ingenstans att han ÄR Wahhabi/Salafi! Jag citerar:
"This statement indicates
that Osama bin Laden is neither knowlegeable in Islam, nor is he attached to the principles and practices of Salafism."
Så sluta snacka skit...

lol nu gjorde jag bort mig...sorry Hamdo =) Jag skyller ^^ på min trötthet..

Demirel: Läs det jag citerade i ovanstående inlägg..
Sen vill jag ställa dig en fråga? Vad är (enligt dig) salafi/wahhabi för något?

ThePharaoh P16

Nej, han har aldrig varit religiös, speciellt inte sen han gjorde sitt första album.

Ska du komma här och påstå att jag hittar på nåt eller?! =P

Javisst, här..:

Klicka här, speleman

Vadfan är NAS ? Han rappar både om God's Son (Jesus?) och "The Mighty Allah"